Baha Mansour d aselmad n tmaziɣt deg Merruk. Yewwi-d awal ɣef wuguren i d-yettmagar deg unnar.
Aɣmis n Yimaziɣen: Deg tazwara, amek iga waddad n usɣer n tmaziɣt di Merruk?
Baha Mansoub: Akken tessnem, addad n uselmed n tutlayt tamaziɣt di Meṛṛuk am netta am wayen yakk yerzan tamaziɣt d temmuzɣa. Di tmazirt-agi, ulac tayri i wakken ad d-rren azal-is i tutlayt, i yidles, i tɣerma, d yizerfan n umdan, ama d wid n tmeṭṭut neɣ n urgaz… Asɣer azayez d tawaɣit i meṛṛa tangiwin i yettuɣran di tinmel (aɣerbaz) tawmeṛṛukt am tefransist, taɛrabt, tusnakt, amezruy… Ahil i yettuɣran yesɛa aṭas n tektiwin tiberkanin… Agemmuḍ-is d yiwen n umdan i iḥeqqren iman-is. Maca tamaziɣt, rnan-as tafesna di twaɣit. Ar ass-a, drus n yiɣerbazen ideg tettwasɣaray tmaziɣt. Yenna Meɛtub : « ur riɣ ad tettuɣer tmaziɣt di tinmel yuḍnen », tura zemreɣ ad d-iniɣ nwis tugdi n Dda Lwennas, tuɣal d tidet di Meṛṛuk.
Ahat ttewɛirent kra n tlufa i yinelmaden imi timsirin ɣur-wen s tfinaɣ?
Tira s tfinaɣ, zemreɣ ad d-iniɣ ur wɛirent ara aṭas. Ttelmaden-tent yinelmaden s tazzla. as yelmeḍ ulemmud-ines i yinelmaden d tnelmadin, maca ulac idlisen yettwarun s tfinaɣ. S umata seg unadi ussnan yettwaggen seg tekcumi n Yiṛumiyen ɣer tmurt-nneɣ yella s usekkil alatini. Ar ass-a, imura imaziɣen yakk ttarun s usekkil alatini. Nekni tura mi nesselmad tamaziɣt s tfinaɣ, inelmaden ulac d acu ara ɣren, slid kra n tmucuha i d-yessufeɣ Usinag Ageldan n Yidles Amaziɣ (IRCAM), gma-s n Useqqamu Unnig n Timmuzɣa (HCA). Tuddsa tazayezt i yettɛebbin anezgum n tmaziɣt s tɣarast (manière) n udabu.
Acimi mačči s yisekkilen n tlatinit i tesɣarayem?
Deg useggas n 2001, yessenṣeb udabu asekkil-agi iwumi qqaren tifinaɣ-IRCAM, deffir ufran-is sɣur Useqqamu Adeblan n Usinag. Deg umezwaru deɣren igmamen-is i usekkil alatini d win n teɛrabt d win n tfinaɣ, deg tsutelt tis snat deɣren yakk i usekkil n tfinaɣ. Nessen meṛṛa taɣtest n usekkil ur telli d tin n udɣar (vote), maca tella d tin n yimussnawen d yimuzzag n tesnilest am: Salem Caker, Qaḍi Qeddur, Dda Lmumud, Bujemɛa Lhebbaz… Meṛṛa wigi d wiyaḍ-nniḍen gan aṭas n tezrawin, ttinin i wakken tamaziɣt ad teddu ɣer sdat yuccel (ilaq) asekkil alatini. D acu kan adabu ameṛṛuki, yesɛa addud-nniḍen. Nekni s Yimaziɣen, ur ilaq ara ad yesɛu yal yiwen tamaziɣt-is d usekkil-is. Yuccel ad nili deg yiwen n ubrid ma nra tafat i yimal n tutlayt-nneɣ.
Kunwi s yiselmaden, d anwi uguren i d-tettmagarem deg leqdic-nwen?
Ilaq ad ssentiɣ awal seg useggas n 2003 asmi teṛẓem tinmel tameṛṛukit tiwwura-ines i tutlayt n Yugerten, mi xedmen i yiselmaden d tselmadin i yessawalen s tmaziɣt asileɣ n kṛaḍ n wussan. Ad as-tiniḍ wigi yessawalen kra n tutlayt zemren ad tt-sseɣren. Ar useggas anemlan n 2012/2013 i iɛebba uɣlif n usegmi anamur taɣtest i wakken ad yessileɣ iselmaden imazzagen deg tmaziɣt. Ssufɣen-d 80 n yiselmaden d tselmadin. Di 2013/2014 rnan-as 80. 2014/2015 rnan 120. Deg 2015/2016 rnan 120. Aseggas-a n 2017 ulac asileɣ n yiselmaden n tmaziɣt. Ugar n wannect-agi, iselmaden d tselmadin i yeṭṭfen taḍermist aseggas-a, ur sɛin azref ad sseɣren tamaziɣt acku yella wugur n yiselmaden n tefransist d teɛrabt ɣur uwanek. Uguren-nniḍen, d drus n tinmal ideg tettwasɣaray tmaziɣt, d drus n tinmal ideg i tt-yeqqar unelmad seg uswir amezwau ar uswir wis sḍiṣ. Deg tesnawit, iselmaden i yesɣarayen tamaziɣt, tura aṭas seg-sen ur sɛin ara tineɣrit-nsen. Yuccel ad sseɣren kul aswir di tneɣrit n tnagiwin-nniḍen. Ussan-agi, yenna uneɣlaf n usegmi anamur: « D tidet ur fkiɣ ara azal i uselmed n tmaziɣt, maca deg wussan i d-yettasen ad d-nesbedd irkelli aselmed-is s yiselmaden imazzagen. Ihi iselmaden n tmaziɣt, ad sseɣren tamaziɣt, tafransit d tusnakt ». Awal n uneɣlaf, yebɣa ad d-yini, cwiṭ cwiṭ ad tettwakkes tmaziɣt seg tinmel. Di tesdawit nettaf-itt di Wejda, Agadir, Fas d Naḍur aseggas-agi. Maca amḍan n yinelmaden yettidris yal aseggas, acku ulac tawuri (amazil) s ugerdas n tmaziɣt.
Segmi tuɣal tamaziɣt d tunsibt dinna, d acu i d-yellan d abeddel i ubaɣur n tutlayt?
Aṣenṣeb n tutlayt tamaziɣt d tikerkest taxatart. Segmi tella tmaziɣt d tutlayt tunṣibt tis snat di tmendawt n 2011, ttganin Yimaziɣen iṣuḍaf imsudsen n tmaziɣt d tutlayt tunṣibt. Asmi d-ffɣen, teffeɣ-d yid-sen twaɣit deg umaḍal i werǧin telli. Send ad d-yeffeɣ uṣaḍuf-agi, meṛṛa tisuda (tugart Aseqqim Anafella n Uselmed) qqarent ad nexdem tamaziɣt akken bɣan yiṣuḍaf imsudsen. Mi d-yeffeɣ uṣaḍuf-agi, nettaf deg-s, “ad tekcem tmaziɣt s tinmel akken yettini Useqqim Anafella n Uselmed”. Yal yiwen iteqqel ɣer wayeḍ. Maca d Imaziɣen i yettganin Guḍu akken yura Ṣamwil Bikit di tmezgunt-is ur nettwattu ara. Ihi zemreɣ ad d-iniɣ war tugdi, belli aṣenṣeb n tmaziɣt deg useggas n 2011, yusa-d i wakken ad beddlen i Yimaziɣen udem.
D anti tifrat i tettwalim akken ad yali yisem n tmaziɣt d yidles-is?
Ulac tifrat i tmaziɣt mebla awanek amaziɣ. I wakken ad yili uwanek amaziɣ, ilaq Imaziɣen ad gen afus deg ufus. Tadukkli, tamunt, tartit, tanmennakt… Wigi d akniwen n yal taɣawsa i ḥwajen Yimaziɣen meṛṛa. Ilaq ad nesdukkel iɣallen. Ifukk ad neg afus deg ufus. Nesra tumast ad teddukkel.“Axxam i wakken ad t-nezdeɣ ilaq-as llsas ara t-yeṭṭfen” akken yecna yizem n Ḡerǧer. Tinariwin daɣen cennunt Tumast tanni bḍant war ma tewweḍ iswi-nnes. Ttwaliɣ, deg waddad amiran n tɣawsiwin, ad nejmeɛ imaswaḍen i tirza gar-aneɣ. Ad nemyawas akked yigduden-nniḍen yesɛan uguren am wid-nneɣ: Ikurdiyen, Ibaṣkiyen, At Kaṭalan, Ihindiyen… Ilaq ad nelteɣ di tuddsiwin tigraɣlanin, ad neg asuɣel i yidles amaḍalan, ad nari s tmaziɣt, ad nɣer yis-s, ad nḥulfu i targit s tmaziɣt, tutlayt n tlelli d uslelli.
Tanemmirt ɣef wayen i d-tenniḍ. Awal-ik n taggara…
Ulac uɣilif. Deg uneggaru n wawal riɣ ad d-iniɣ azul d ameɣnas, seg tmurt n Tmazɣa tutrimt, i meṛṛa atmaten-nneɣ Imaziɣen anda ma llan di tmura n Yimaziɣen, s umata Izwawen. Taqbaylit nessen-itt kan seg yidlisen i uran yimussnawen Iqbayliyen am Dda Lmulud, Bulifa, Belɛid Ayt Ɛli d wiyaḍ d tiyaḍ mebla ma bedreɣ ismawen-nsen meṛṛa. Nessen-itt daɣen s ccna i cnan Yicennayen amzund Meɛtub Lwennas, Ayt Mengellat, Imaziɣen Imula, d wiyaḍ d tiyaḍ, mebla ma bedreɣ yakk ismawen-nsen(t). Ar ass-a, ur zmireɣ ara ad siwleɣ ɣef tmaziɣt, timmuzɣa, d yidles deg Tmazɣa, war ad siwleɣ ɣef wid yefkan tudert-nsen i wakken ad tedder tlelli deg yiman n umdan Amaziɣ. Tagi d tajmilt tameẓyant i wigi i aɣ-d-inejṛen abrid akken ad nissin ixfawen-nneɣ.
Testeqsa-t Kaisa Khalifi